No Script, No Safety Net: How Breakwater Studios Reinvents Brand Storytelling

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At the end of the day, w- brands are now in a really

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interesting space where uncertainty has truly become

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sort of what everybody needs to be comfortable with.

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Welcome to We Built This Brand, where we pull back the

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curtain on the people, the ideas, and the sometimes

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challenging process of building something that matters.

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Today, I'm joined by Kirsten Falk, senior advisor at Breakwater

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Studios, a two-time Academy Award-winning filmmaking company

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and a world leader in humanist short-form documentaries.

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At Breakwater, Kirsten leverages her expertise in brand strategy and

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partnerships to scale the business and oversee marketing innovation.

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Now, it's not every day that you have the opportunity to sit down with a

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two-time Academy Award-winning agency, and in this conversation, we get to talk

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about what makes them so unique, not just in Hollywood, but with their approach

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to creating award-winning short films for some of the world's largest brands.

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So without further ado, here's my conversation

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with Kirsten Falk from Breakwater Studios.

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All righty, well, Kirsten, thank you for

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joining us today on We Built This Brand.

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Excited to be here.

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Yeah, glad to have you, and glad to be talking to you today

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about your journey to Breakwater Studios and all the success

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you all have had and all the exciting things you all do.

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It's, I was really intrigued by this pitch when, when s-

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someone from your team reached out to us and was like,

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"Hey, would you be interested in talking to Breakwater?"

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And I was like, "Who are they?" And I went and looked you all up and was just

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blown away by the work y'all have done and, and the content that you've created.

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So, um, yeah, let's, let's dive into it.

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I always like to start by getting to know you a little bit better.

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So tell me a little bit about your background,

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where you got started and how you got to Breakwater.

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I actually got my start in politics.

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I was actually a political science nerd and, uh, spent many years

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in DC working with ad- advocacy organizations, and ultimately in

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my journey, I started working with tech companies and nonprofit

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companies and became involved in marketing, which is what I love to do.

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And about 10 years ago, I started working with Charles Schwab

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and built up their brand storytelling function and innovation.

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And so in doing that, it sort of leads me to how I ended up at

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Breakwater, which is, as we were building out our new brand platform,

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we partnered with Vimeo to look for directors to help tell our

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story, and that is how I ended up meeting Ben at Breakwater Studios.

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So you were working at Schwab at the time.

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What was the thing that first drew you to working at Breakwater?

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Well, clearly, without a doubt, the quality

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Of the work is just stands on itself.

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And really, um, as Charles Schwab, a financial services company,

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was trying to build relationships with its consumers and

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connect on a value, we realized that that very human-centric

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type of storytelling was really the best format to do that.

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And so that's really why we partnered with Breakwater, was

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just the incredible level of human-centric storytelling.

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So then you go from working on the Charles Schwab side to jumping

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over into Breakwater, and I know you've been there quite a while.

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Tell me about how you all, h- how you all operate.

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What, what exactly is Breakwater for those that don't know?

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Breakwater Studios basically creates short films for

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brands, and also we create our own original s- short films.

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And really, uh, the branded side of the business is really what

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enables us to do, uh, many things and go pursue some of the creative

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passion projects that we feel are stories that need to be told.

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When, when you say, like, passion projects and the stories

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that need to be told, like, it sounds like you all get to

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do some stuff that isn't just, like, normal commercial work.

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Would that be fair?

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That's absolutely fair.

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We basically sort of have two arms of the company, although

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it's the same people working on all the same projects.

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Ben, who started Breakwater Studios, might find a story or meet somebody that he

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feels is a compelling story that needs to be told, and that's what he will do.

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And then we also have the opportunity to partner with, uh,

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other organizations, including foundations or nonprofits,

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where there's an opportunity to tell a story as well.

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And that's, that branded part of your business, is that kind of, I

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guess, your bread and butter that allows you to do the creative side?

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Exactly.

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It's really what has enabled us to go and pursue some of

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these incredible stories that wouldn't normally be told.

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But ultimately, at the end of the day, the branded business

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is the one that provides the revenue for the company.

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And we've been incredibly fortunate to work with some brands that

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are very aligned with our values and really give us the creative

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freedom to tell stories in the way that they need to be told.

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That's really cool, 'cause I feel like a lot of times brands, when you work

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with them, you know, you're, you're very beholden to their stylistic choices.

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And, and I mean, in any project, like, for hire, you're going to be to a degree.

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But it, it feels like you're, you can be very beholden to what they want you to

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do, and exactly how they want you to do it, and tell the story exactly your way.

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But I, I've noticed from the body of work that I've gotten to see, you all v-

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have a very unique style, and it feels like you're being hired more for what

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you bring to the table specifically, as opposed to trying to match maybe what

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the last commercial artist did for, you know, the last ad campaign for a brand.

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Well, you couldn't be more right, and that's actually a

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part of the Breakwater creative process, which we protect.

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And so at the beginning of any relationship with a brand,

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we negotiate and are very upfront and transparent about

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the creative process, and that it's really a leap of faith.

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And our portfolio speaks for itself.

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But all brands struggle, right?

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It's tough, because they're worried about taking

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risks or sharing something that might not be popular.

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And so that's part of the relationship that we build with

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them at the beginning, to really ensure that we're aligned,

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but also give us the creative freedom to go do what we

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do best.

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That's very different, I think, from a lot of other brand agencies where,

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like, there's a video production agency that we're pretty close to, and then

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they pretty much, you know, they, they do what they're commissioned to do.

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They bring their creativity to the table, and

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they have a certain eye and a certain style.

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You can tell when they create the work.

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But typically, it ends there, and everything else is on the client.

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So you're, you're kind of bringing your own brand to the brand.

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Absolutely.

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And that's what enables us to be able to continue to do the work that

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we do, which is ultimately really protect the filmmaking process and

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the documentary process, which means that there's no script, right?

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There's no storyboard.

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That really, in the interview process, we discover what it's going to be about,

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and so we really have to get brands to understand and be comfortable with that.

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Yeah.

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The, the organized side of me just, my gut just dropped when you said there's

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no script, there's no storyboard . I'm like, "Wait, how, how do you start then?

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How did, how does this all start?"

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It starts with a great brief, and ul-

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ultimately just a, a strong brand strategy.

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Because at the end of the day, what we are trying to do is create a narrative

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that extends the values that the company is really trying to communicate.

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And so that's where we start at the beginning

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of a project, is what are the values?

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What do you wanna be known for?

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How do you want to express yourself in the marketplace?

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But there's a lot of different ways to get to that

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endpoint And so to your point, it is a little spirit.

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But Ben and the creative team are incredibly talented at ending up at

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that place that typically actually exceeds our clients' expectations.

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When you're creating these documentary style videos

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and content, are, are there no questions planned?

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Is it go on the day and you have a general topic?

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I mean, is there someone... How does that operate?

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I'm, I'm just really, I'm getting in the weeds here, but I'm really curious.

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Yes.

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And, uh, and certainly the creative team

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could even be more detail-oriented about it.

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What we do at the beginning is we really do a deep

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dive in the brand and make sure we understand the areas

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that need to be covered and the areas that shouldn't.

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Typically, the director really understands, before they go into an

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interview, some of the places that they're gonna want to go or explore.

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The brand can also let us know if there are definitely areas that should not.

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And, and so all of that sort of happens at the beginning.

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And then in the interview process, which is many, many hours,

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there can be some prepared questions, but for the most part,

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it's really a intimate, sort of closed set where there's a real

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relationship built between the director and the storyteller.

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Yeah, that, that really, I mean, having hours and hours and hours of

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conversation, you're going to find the right way to have that conversation

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and get to the, the meat of what you want out of the conversation.

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That makes sense.

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I figured there was some structure around it.

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I was just like, I, I just always get nervous when I hear people,

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'cause, you know, we make podcasts, and anybody that says,

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"Oh, I'm just gonna go in and freestyle," I'm like, "Are you?

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Are you sure about that?"

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Well, and also, uh, as you know, the editing process can really

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shape and, and help attain what we're trying to do, you know, and

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the message or the story sort of evolves in that part of it as well.

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Yeah.

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Editing, I mean, everything can be smoothed out

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with good editing and a good camera setup, so

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Yes.

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And all of the things which the team focuses very, very extensively on,

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that is what Breakwater truly prides itself on, is being a, you know,

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fully vertically, uh, integrated studio, where everything from color

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and sound, all elements of filmmaking are really sort of invested in.

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And that's, I mean, that, I, I think, you know, being able to control

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that whole production process from, you know, pre-production, recording,

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post-production and everything makes a big difference when you've got everybody

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aligned on a project and able to focus in the way they need to on a product,

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as opposed to having to outsource to a third party or someone like that.

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I mean, it makes a big difference.

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Makes a big difference.

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So tell me a little bit about the, the more, the more

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fun side, the passion side of what you all have done.

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Now you're, you're not just doing this for fun.

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I mean, you all have landed some serious awards for your work.

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I mean, two Academy Awards, if I'm not mistaken.

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Yes, that's correct.

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Yeah.

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So, so tell me more about that side of the,

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of the business and the, and the passion side.

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Well, it, all of it really sort of starts with Ben Proudfoot,

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who started the company in 2012 with a real vision to build

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sort of an old-school studio, Hollywood, uh, where everybody and

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all the artists came together to create truly exceptional film.

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And so I think the awards are just a reflection of that vision

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that was really about building a studio where the creative talent

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could all come together and do the best that they could do.

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And, and both of those stories are really ones that Ben and the team found

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that showed stories that hadn't really been told and really were extraordinary.

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And I think when you have an extraordinary story, it helps move

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people, it helps win awards or get into festivals or, or do

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incredible things, and both of those stories demonstrate that.

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Talking about building the business, I mean, you, you came in

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from Charles Schwab, and you've, you've moved into this space.

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You're, I, I assume, correct me if I'm wrong, you

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were on the kind of the marketing communication side?

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Oh, a brand marketer, and, and basically bringing that role over to Breakwater.

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I oversee the brand and partnerships, so in a sense I can be the liaison between

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the brand and the creative team and, and really understand how to market the

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film and activate the film and sort of partner and kind of be that bridge.

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So when, when you came in, I know one of the big projects

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that we talked about in our pre-call was, you know,

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L'Oréal and the work that you all had done with them.

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Tell me more about that film.

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How did that start?

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What was the challenge that you faced?

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The L'Oréal film was literally one of my favorite

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projects to work on, and I think it demonstrates the

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best of sort of everything, where all the stars aligned.

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The first part of it was the incredible partnership that

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we had with Traverse 32 and McCann and the client, L'Oréal.

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And basically, it actually was a very simple brief where they came

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to us and they just, they had an idea of the story, but they really

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wanted everyone to understand the good and bad in a sense, like the

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true story of how this iconic tagline came to life and this incredible

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woman who was behind it who had never really received any credit.

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And so Ben and the team sort of took that and just went with it

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and found Elon and did some incredible things to get it filmed.

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Uh, she was in a building in New York where w- you weren't really even able

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to bring in the camera equipment, so they had to bring it in suitcases.

233
00:14:26,194 --> 00:14:29,064
So there was just a lot of incredible things that happened.

234
00:14:30,014 --> 00:14:35,855
But further, really Ben, who, who has just this incredible secret

235
00:14:36,165 --> 00:14:41,564
skill of just finding and having a conversation with people that

236
00:14:41,564 --> 00:14:47,124
uncovers just raw, real moments, and I think you can see that

237
00:14:47,124 --> 00:14:51,405
talent and that sort of shine through in the story, which was Ben

238
00:14:51,405 --> 00:14:55,895
doing that, having that k- special chemistry in a sense with Elon.

239
00:14:56,414 --> 00:15:02,204
And so yes, the awards, we've been so fortunate with that project, and the

240
00:15:02,204 --> 00:15:08,355
marketing and the activation, sort of the film beyond the film was incredible.

241
00:15:08,634 --> 00:15:11,675
And, and that really is testament to our

242
00:15:11,745 --> 00:15:14,134
partners, our incredible agency partners as well.

243
00:15:14,785 --> 00:15:19,695
I mean, any, any time you're going after a brand project like that, I

244
00:15:19,695 --> 00:15:22,784
mean, there's, there's obviously results that they wanna see from this.

245
00:15:23,114 --> 00:15:25,265
You know, you mentioned awards, and I think you

246
00:15:25,265 --> 00:15:27,985
all won, what was it, the Cannes Grand Prix?

247
00:15:27,985 --> 00:15:28,974
Is that how you say it?

248
00:15:28,974 --> 00:15:31,574
Can- yeah, the Grand Prix for Film, Cannes Lion.

249
00:15:31,775 --> 00:15:36,135
Which is an incredible achievement to be able to do, so congratulations on that.

250
00:15:36,705 --> 00:15:38,875
You s- you mentioned that the, there were really

251
00:15:38,875 --> 00:15:41,894
good results for L'Oréal as a result of this.

252
00:15:41,894 --> 00:15:43,735
Like, what was the impact?

253
00:15:43,735 --> 00:15:46,445
Like, was there anything specific they could point to and say,

254
00:15:46,915 --> 00:15:50,765
you know, beyond views or beyond engagement, like what, what did

255
00:15:50,765 --> 00:15:54,714
you all help them realize, I guess, as a result of this project?

256
00:15:55,214 --> 00:15:58,835
I think with most of our clients, ultimately what we're trying

257
00:15:58,835 --> 00:16:03,485
to help them do is build that emotional connection through film,

258
00:16:04,015 --> 00:16:08,534
and, and that is why the format of a short film does that so well.

259
00:16:09,244 --> 00:16:14,665
And so ultimately people who watched the film had a much

260
00:16:14,665 --> 00:16:18,055
more positive sentiment for the brand and were truly

261
00:16:18,055 --> 00:16:23,665
inspired by its commitment to the idea of women are worth it.

262
00:16:24,004 --> 00:16:27,035
And so I think that was just something that resonated all

263
00:16:27,035 --> 00:16:31,134
around the world really globally and inspired and reminded

264
00:16:31,134 --> 00:16:34,664
everyone w- of what a legacy brand still stood for.

265
00:16:34,955 --> 00:16:37,294
And so that is where L'Oréal was very happy

266
00:16:37,985 --> 00:16:40,315
and is still, um, invested in the film.

267
00:16:40,705 --> 00:16:44,434
And I mean, having seen some of the film, like it's really ... I

268
00:16:44,434 --> 00:16:46,705
mean, you, you can tell you all have a style between

269
00:16:46,705 --> 00:16:49,584
the Academy Award films you've done and everything else.

270
00:16:49,584 --> 00:16:50,684
I'm a very visual person.

271
00:16:50,684 --> 00:16:54,669
I've got a photography background, so I always look at- You know, these

272
00:16:54,669 --> 00:16:59,079
things through kind of l- the lens of stylistic choices, lighting, color,

273
00:16:59,079 --> 00:17:03,209
balance, all that stuff, and even pacing of the way the story's told.

274
00:17:03,209 --> 00:17:05,540
It's, it's definitely, um ... For those who haven't

275
00:17:05,540 --> 00:17:08,349
seen it, I highly recommend go watch this film.

276
00:17:08,349 --> 00:17:10,240
Go, go check out some of the other work you've done.

277
00:17:10,240 --> 00:17:13,600
It's all short form, so ... Or short films, I should say, not short form.

278
00:17:13,600 --> 00:17:14,250
Short films, yes.

279
00:17:14,250 --> 00:17:17,090
It's a little different than short form, so it is a little longer.

280
00:17:17,359 --> 00:17:20,900
Yeah, it's, it's definitely a very fascinating, you know, place to

281
00:17:20,900 --> 00:17:23,680
be, and I'm sure it was a big change, too, coming from the brand

282
00:17:23,680 --> 00:17:27,349
world to being now on this production side of the media world.

283
00:17:27,730 --> 00:17:29,590
What have you seen as, like, the thing you,

284
00:17:29,590 --> 00:17:31,860
you've enjoyed the most in this, in this role?

285
00:17:32,310 --> 00:17:39,630
I love our clients getting to see what film can do for their target audiences.

286
00:17:40,139 --> 00:17:45,160
And at the end of the day, it still blows my mind how film can move people.

287
00:17:45,689 --> 00:17:50,079
And, and ultimately, exceptional sto- storytelling really

288
00:17:50,079 --> 00:17:55,549
can get people inspired to take action, to believe.

289
00:17:55,599 --> 00:18:00,939
It's just, the power of it is incredible, and I still love watching that

290
00:18:00,980 --> 00:18:06,049
when we get to share a rough cut with a client and seeing their excitement.

291
00:18:06,770 --> 00:18:09,569
It's really, it's really neat when you can do that and be impactful.

292
00:18:09,569 --> 00:18:12,609
And, and again, I, I've, I think I've already kind of said this before, but

293
00:18:12,609 --> 00:18:16,850
just, yeah, I find it so fascinating that you all are bringing y- truly your

294
00:18:16,850 --> 00:18:22,079
own brand, your own style, your own look to this, as opposed to, you know, being

295
00:18:22,079 --> 00:18:27,469
hired for, you know, just what I consider most normal, rote commercial work.

296
00:18:27,759 --> 00:18:28,929
So, that's fascinating.

297
00:18:28,929 --> 00:18:33,499
Well, and again, I think I mentioned it earlier, but, and this is where brand

298
00:18:33,499 --> 00:18:40,490
is truly important, because we will only work with brands that truly reflect

299
00:18:40,560 --> 00:18:46,310
our values, and also understand our worth and what we bring to the table.

300
00:18:46,549 --> 00:18:50,410
Brands are experts about their space and their products, and even

301
00:18:50,410 --> 00:18:55,079
their audiences, but we also understand how to entertain and,

302
00:18:55,289 --> 00:18:59,640
and how to create films that will truly resonate with people.

303
00:18:59,980 --> 00:19:02,879
And so again, we're very upfront.

304
00:19:02,940 --> 00:19:05,720
We say no a lot when it's just clear that

305
00:19:05,759 --> 00:19:07,550
there isn't an alignment on those values.

306
00:19:08,090 --> 00:19:10,890
Saying no, I was having that conversation with someone else earlier,

307
00:19:10,890 --> 00:19:14,590
and it's one of the most important things you can do when, when

308
00:19:14,590 --> 00:19:18,099
you have, you know, that level of autonomy with your business.

309
00:19:18,149 --> 00:19:22,110
And I mean, really, in any business you should be able to say no, but it's

310
00:19:22,110 --> 00:19:25,200
great when you have that ability to turn people down and say you don't.

311
00:19:25,539 --> 00:19:28,129
You know, "I'm sorry, but we're not a fit." Like, there's

312
00:19:28,129 --> 00:19:30,909
a power in that that I think is important to have.

313
00:19:30,909 --> 00:19:32,519
So tell me a little bit more.

314
00:19:32,519 --> 00:19:33,569
You mentioned values.

315
00:19:33,569 --> 00:19:36,259
What, what would you say are the core values of Breakwater?

316
00:19:36,970 --> 00:19:40,569
Oh, well, I think Breakwater is very committed to its values.

317
00:19:40,670 --> 00:19:46,810
Um, a super important one for us is advocacy for our storyteller.

318
00:19:47,629 --> 00:19:50,189
And that is something that the whole creative team

319
00:19:50,230 --> 00:19:53,619
and the company really sort of protects and insulates.

320
00:19:54,480 --> 00:19:59,169
And so everything that we do is really oriented around that advocacy.

321
00:19:59,570 --> 00:20:03,300
We also believe in optimism and hope and sort of the

322
00:20:03,479 --> 00:20:08,839
positivity that we can bring to, uh, society with our

323
00:20:08,839 --> 00:20:12,210
work and the impact that we can make by doing that.

324
00:20:12,210 --> 00:20:16,249
There's also a little element of magic in what we do, and we believe in sort

325
00:20:16,249 --> 00:20:21,570
of the things that might not be seen, helping make those explicit for people.

326
00:20:21,940 --> 00:20:25,780
So those are some of the key values, and just obviously being incredibly

327
00:20:25,989 --> 00:20:31,289
human-centered and, and focused on what we can do through human storytelling.

328
00:20:31,690 --> 00:20:33,660
What, what do you mean when you say advocacy?

329
00:20:33,750 --> 00:20:34,919
I'm, I'm really curious.

330
00:20:34,919 --> 00:20:38,039
Like, are you advocating for someone because of, you know, a specific

331
00:20:38,039 --> 00:20:42,840
cause or are you saying advocacy as in as you build the story, you wanna

332
00:20:42,840 --> 00:20:47,620
make sure that their story doesn't get lost or overshadowed by the brand?

333
00:20:49,469 --> 00:20:51,400
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344
00:21:30,489 --> 00:21:31,750
It can mean many things.

345
00:21:31,750 --> 00:21:35,139
A good example is our film, The Last Repair

346
00:21:35,460 --> 00:21:37,790
Shop, which was an Academy Award-winning film.

347
00:21:38,100 --> 00:21:41,350
Ben kicked off a capital campaign after that

348
00:21:41,500 --> 00:21:45,929
film to help fund the repair shop in LAUSD.

349
00:21:46,669 --> 00:21:52,800
So that is an example of where the advocacy re- work really translated into

350
00:21:52,919 --> 00:21:57,970
building a fundraising campaign and really making an impact on the students

351
00:21:57,999 --> 00:22:01,859
who all needed access to musical instruments and, and, and the repairs.

352
00:22:02,389 --> 00:22:03,630
And so that's one part of it.

353
00:22:03,659 --> 00:22:07,819
But the other part, like you mentioned, is sort of insulating the

354
00:22:07,819 --> 00:22:12,880
storyteller and, and, and ensuring that we tell their story in an

355
00:22:12,999 --> 00:22:17,810
authentic and real way, and one that really reflects their story.

356
00:22:18,170 --> 00:22:22,359
A lot of history might not have shown some of the stories

357
00:22:22,359 --> 00:22:26,429
for people that were wanted at the time, and so we try

358
00:22:26,429 --> 00:22:30,030
and go out and uncover stories that haven't been told.

359
00:22:30,089 --> 00:22:34,989
And so sometimes it can be, you know, a little inflammatory

360
00:22:34,989 --> 00:22:37,770
or, you know, provocative, I think is the right word.

361
00:22:38,529 --> 00:22:41,609
But at the end of the day, it's really important to us to get those stories

362
00:22:41,609 --> 00:22:46,879
told so that people can have a full understanding of how things occurred.

363
00:22:47,245 --> 00:22:48,694
And I think the queen of basketball, for

364
00:22:48,694 --> 00:22:50,534
example, is a really good example of that

365
00:22:51,174 --> 00:22:53,554
I mean, those are, those are definitely good examples.

366
00:22:53,554 --> 00:22:55,945
And, and, and now that you say that, I thank you.

367
00:22:55,945 --> 00:22:58,615
That, that's helpful in understanding that, that

368
00:22:58,615 --> 00:23:00,924
meaning of advocacy in, in what you're doing.

369
00:23:00,924 --> 00:23:03,004
'Cause, you know, as a brand who may be watching this

370
00:23:03,004 --> 00:23:05,414
goes, "Oh, these people would be great to work with."

371
00:23:05,414 --> 00:23:07,465
You know, it's good to know what they're getting into.

372
00:23:07,605 --> 00:23:12,004
Um, you know, and, and, and whether you may say no or not to a project

373
00:23:12,004 --> 00:23:15,894
because it might be too focused on, you know, oh, we really wanna make

374
00:23:15,894 --> 00:23:20,245
this about our brand and not about this person in the interview process.

375
00:23:20,245 --> 00:23:21,414
We don't really care about them.

376
00:23:21,414 --> 00:23:22,675
They're just a vehicle, you know.

377
00:23:23,284 --> 00:23:24,694
Sounds like that would not be a fit.

378
00:23:25,175 --> 00:23:25,554
No.

379
00:23:25,604 --> 00:23:28,804
And, and like you said, there's lots of incredible production

380
00:23:28,944 --> 00:23:33,185
companies out there who do create advertising work, commercials,

381
00:23:33,185 --> 00:23:36,675
and, and, you know, product testimonials, all that stuff.

382
00:23:37,015 --> 00:23:38,775
Just so we know what we're good

383
00:23:39,425 --> 00:23:39,495
at.

384
00:23:39,495 --> 00:23:40,124
Absolutely.

385
00:23:40,435 --> 00:23:42,414
So why the name Breakwater?

386
00:23:42,414 --> 00:23:45,435
I mean, I always feel like names are very intrinsic to branding,

387
00:23:45,944 --> 00:23:49,304
and obviously there's gotta be a reason, um, for the company name.

388
00:23:49,304 --> 00:23:50,534
But w- why is that?

389
00:23:51,085 --> 00:23:53,095
Uh, well, I think it's a theme that you've heard.

390
00:23:53,155 --> 00:23:57,394
But Ben, who's from Nova Scotia, he's a Canadian, was

391
00:23:57,394 --> 00:24:01,055
close to the sea, obviously, and Breakwater is a seawall

392
00:24:01,504 --> 00:24:04,445
that protects, you know, the land from the ocean.

393
00:24:05,165 --> 00:24:09,854
And so Ben's vision was to build a creative studio that

394
00:24:10,015 --> 00:24:13,265
protected the artist and the creative process and the

395
00:24:13,265 --> 00:24:17,625
storyteller from all the things that can sort of impact that.

396
00:24:18,454 --> 00:24:22,894
So that's super important part of the brand, and what Breakwater represents

397
00:24:23,265 --> 00:24:26,604
is that, is that protection of the creative interpreting process.

398
00:24:27,155 --> 00:24:29,674
And that's a, I mean, a good visual image, too,

399
00:24:29,674 --> 00:24:31,935
with, with how you all are running your business.

400
00:24:31,935 --> 00:24:35,305
It's always nice when they align like that, or aren't just,

401
00:24:35,305 --> 00:24:38,765
like, letters followed by numbers, or you know, something.

402
00:24:39,244 --> 00:24:39,714
Yes.

403
00:24:39,784 --> 00:24:41,655
We are very brand-focused.

404
00:24:41,875 --> 00:24:47,405
Um, I think you'll see Ben is involved in every single element of the brand,

405
00:24:47,615 --> 00:24:53,004
and we have, hold a very, very high bar on everything that we produce or create.

406
00:24:53,244 --> 00:24:56,375
And, and it is very driven by a brand style guide and

407
00:24:56,375 --> 00:25:00,345
a look and feel and personality that reflects that.

408
00:25:00,864 --> 00:25:03,464
I mean, y- yeah, you definitely wanna make sure that, you know,

409
00:25:03,464 --> 00:25:06,604
you hit all the key points with that brand style, too, when you're,

410
00:25:06,685 --> 00:25:09,315
when you're doing any project, like, for a client, obviously.

411
00:25:09,515 --> 00:25:12,864
But, so what have you learned about branding through this project?

412
00:25:12,864 --> 00:25:15,634
I mean, brand was your specialty coming into this.

413
00:25:15,765 --> 00:25:17,584
You work and help brands now.

414
00:25:17,584 --> 00:25:19,205
Like, what have you learned about brands?

415
00:25:19,914 --> 00:25:24,015
At the end of the day, brands are now in a really interesting

416
00:25:24,015 --> 00:25:29,974
space where uncertainty has truly become sort of what

417
00:25:29,974 --> 00:25:33,614
everybody needs to be comfortable with, and that is not easy.

418
00:25:34,494 --> 00:25:39,375
And so I think, uh, for brands, the old school sort

419
00:25:39,375 --> 00:25:42,224
of way of it was you kind of came up with everything.

420
00:25:42,224 --> 00:25:43,425
You had a plan.

421
00:25:43,860 --> 00:25:47,850
You had a structure, you understood, you had control over these

422
00:25:47,850 --> 00:25:51,849
things, and now we're in a world where brands have to be more

423
00:25:51,849 --> 00:25:55,929
adaptive and evolve with the marketplace and their audiences.

424
00:25:56,630 --> 00:25:59,389
And so I think that creates incredible opportunity

425
00:25:59,469 --> 00:26:02,169
from a content perspective, but I know it is hard.

426
00:26:02,579 --> 00:26:06,839
And so, um, that is something I say, is that now brands really

427
00:26:06,839 --> 00:26:11,780
have to have a growth mindset a- and really be in a place

428
00:26:11,919 --> 00:26:16,809
of being ready to take advantage of a cultural moment and be

429
00:26:16,809 --> 00:26:20,500
relevant, and, uh, that is not always something you can plan for.

430
00:26:21,009 --> 00:26:25,030
No, you can't, and sometimes it's thrust upon you in ways you don't expect.

431
00:26:26,050 --> 00:26:26,800
Exactly.

432
00:26:27,059 --> 00:26:31,390
And, and that's part of it, which is you have to have sort of more of that

433
00:26:31,509 --> 00:26:36,070
openness, and I think that's very different than some how brand marketing sort

434
00:26:36,070 --> 00:26:39,870
of used to be, which was a very structured, sort of top-down and controlled way.

435
00:26:40,710 --> 00:26:43,360
And I think there's, there's also right now a real push for

436
00:26:43,360 --> 00:26:46,629
authenticity, which genuinely lin- not just saying this,

437
00:26:46,629 --> 00:26:49,030
genuinely lends itself to what you all do at Breakwater.

438
00:26:49,059 --> 00:26:51,799
I mean, that level of authenticity means a lot.

439
00:26:52,220 --> 00:26:54,599
And, you know, we're finding, like in the world

440
00:26:54,599 --> 00:26:57,169
of AI, things are feeling very superficial.

441
00:26:57,169 --> 00:27:01,589
They're feeling very artificial, obviously, artificial intelligence.

442
00:27:01,919 --> 00:27:06,250
And, you know, for, for brands that have to rely on AI, like that can

443
00:27:06,250 --> 00:27:09,470
create problems, or brands that think they need to rely on AI, that

444
00:27:09,470 --> 00:27:12,549
can even create problems when you're trying to market to people that

445
00:27:12,549 --> 00:27:17,530
are seeking out and kind of sensing, oh, this, you know, doesn't, it's

446
00:27:17,780 --> 00:27:20,869
doesn't pass the sniff test, kind of like the uncanny valley effect.

447
00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:24,000
And we're, we're finding that happening with marketing a lot right now.

448
00:27:24,030 --> 00:27:28,739
So what, what is, by the way, I'm really curious what your all's take is on AI.

449
00:27:28,769 --> 00:27:31,320
I think we talked about this a little bit when we were planning

450
00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:34,360
this call, but yeah, just feel free to share some with me.

451
00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:39,360
AI is sort of two things are true at the same time, which is

452
00:27:39,360 --> 00:27:43,479
there's a very scary sort of component to it and the implications

453
00:27:43,479 --> 00:27:47,750
and where this is all gonna go and kind of the impact it's

454
00:27:47,750 --> 00:27:51,699
having on content, sort of the slop that's being created, right?

455
00:27:52,039 --> 00:27:56,399
In a, in a way overwhelming the consumer with even more sort of cheap content.

456
00:27:56,699 --> 00:27:59,330
And so my belief is that the future is

457
00:27:59,330 --> 00:28:01,959
about quality and not quantity for brands.

458
00:28:02,169 --> 00:28:03,530
But then at the same time, there's the

459
00:28:03,530 --> 00:28:06,780
productivity component, which is incredible, right?

460
00:28:07,459 --> 00:28:11,360
Uh, and so for us as a team, we have an in-house story department.

461
00:28:11,940 --> 00:28:15,819
We find all of our stories and do... A- a- and without a

462
00:28:15,819 --> 00:28:20,610
doubt, AI has, has s- turbo-charged that in a sense, right?

463
00:28:21,110 --> 00:28:25,589
Because finding stories is kind of a volume game, and so

464
00:28:25,589 --> 00:28:28,479
again, there's still people really involved in that process.

465
00:28:28,940 --> 00:28:32,459
But what it can do is quickly do research on a topic or

466
00:28:32,459 --> 00:28:37,080
a subject and uncover incredible things that then allows

467
00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:39,720
the team to go down a certain thread and find more.

468
00:28:40,164 --> 00:28:43,334
So I think we feel from that, from a productivity

469
00:28:43,334 --> 00:28:46,895
standpoint, that it's an incredible opportunity.

470
00:28:47,185 --> 00:28:52,584
And, and from a marketplace opportunity, as you mentioned, more brands

471
00:28:52,584 --> 00:28:59,354
are really trying to invest in high quality, premium content that is

472
00:28:59,354 --> 00:29:03,335
authentic and sort of human-centered, and that's literally what we offer.

473
00:29:03,874 --> 00:29:06,085
So I think those are all sort of the, you know, it's kind

474
00:29:06,085 --> 00:29:09,194
of this tension between the good and the bad of, of AI.

475
00:29:09,505 --> 00:29:13,484
I mean, I, I could see simple ways, and I speak from experience, just doing

476
00:29:13,484 --> 00:29:17,794
podcasts, some narrative series, some things like that, that we've done, and

477
00:29:18,004 --> 00:29:22,024
there's just simple things where AI is super helpful, like auto-transcribing.

478
00:29:22,074 --> 00:29:24,975
I mean, I'm sure your, your transcription

479
00:29:24,975 --> 00:29:27,465
budget's way down from what it used to be.

480
00:29:27,805 --> 00:29:31,524
And also just the ability to search through transcripts and, you

481
00:29:31,524 --> 00:29:34,625
know, give you synopsis over things or help you understand, did

482
00:29:34,625 --> 00:29:38,765
I, did I ask a question here or maybe not ask for its opinion,

483
00:29:38,765 --> 00:29:42,995
but ask for it to, to highlight things from, from a conversation.

484
00:29:42,995 --> 00:29:46,504
I mean, there, there's so many ways it can be helpful in saving you time.

485
00:29:46,504 --> 00:29:47,864
I definitely see the value in it.

486
00:29:48,354 --> 00:29:53,405
And part of, like, what the, you know, like Anthropic's campaign, who I'm a huge

487
00:29:53,405 --> 00:29:57,485
fan of, Keep Thinking, which is basically we're gonna take care of all these,

488
00:29:57,915 --> 00:30:03,294
you know, um, admin-oriented tasks that have been taking up your day, and we're

489
00:30:03,294 --> 00:30:06,854
gonna give you the platform so that you can spend more time being creative.

490
00:30:07,214 --> 00:30:09,525
And I do think there's definitely something to be said for that.

491
00:30:09,604 --> 00:30:09,744
Yeah.

492
00:30:09,964 --> 00:30:13,394
Absolutely, and I think that's, I think that's even at a broader

493
00:30:13,394 --> 00:30:16,544
perspective, I think that's really what we're gonna see happen with AI.

494
00:30:16,544 --> 00:30:20,924
It's very much the way the PC revolutionized, um, computing.

495
00:30:21,125 --> 00:30:24,004
You know, we're seeing that again with AI, and people are thinking,

496
00:30:24,055 --> 00:30:27,385
"Oh, this is gonna kill jobs," and really it's gonna just create

497
00:30:27,385 --> 00:30:30,354
new and different jobs and new and different opportunities.

498
00:30:30,354 --> 00:30:34,394
So there's a lot of, a l- a lot of good things in it, but there's obs-

499
00:30:34,455 --> 00:30:38,445
obviously, like you said, um, there's some ways that it's not good

500
00:30:38,445 --> 00:30:42,385
either, um, the AI slop and the things like that, which I'm sure you all

501
00:30:42,385 --> 00:30:46,854
aren't putting AI interviews together or anything like that anytime soon.

502
00:30:47,015 --> 00:30:49,174
But yeah, that's, that's fascinating.

503
00:30:49,624 --> 00:30:54,234
So how do you see brands evolving over, over the next couple of years?

504
00:30:54,234 --> 00:30:56,284
Like, what, what do you see as the future of brands?

505
00:30:56,734 --> 00:31:01,975
Well, I think for one, I think you're gonna see more brands, in a sense, become

506
00:31:01,975 --> 00:31:07,525
a part of the entertainment space, and that's absolutely happening in Hollywood.

507
00:31:07,975 --> 00:31:10,575
And you have things like, you know, YouTube, uh,

508
00:31:10,575 --> 00:31:13,064
hosting the Academy Awards in a couple of years.

509
00:31:13,064 --> 00:31:18,064
So I think you're seeing some major trends where brands realize the value

510
00:31:18,295 --> 00:31:22,844
of entertainment investments, so I think that's definitely something.

511
00:31:23,094 --> 00:31:26,504
A- and like I mentioned, I think that brands are gonna have

512
00:31:26,504 --> 00:31:30,124
to just be more agile in, in this world of sort of constant

513
00:31:30,124 --> 00:31:35,674
change, and, and that's a new thing for many large companies.

514
00:31:36,575 --> 00:31:39,755
As somebody coming f- you know, who formerly worked at a large company,

515
00:31:39,785 --> 00:31:43,875
that agility, you know, it's gonna take some cha- time for change.

516
00:31:44,254 --> 00:31:49,155
And I do think, like you mentioned, there's gonna be new roles and sort

517
00:31:49,155 --> 00:31:53,514
of new structures, and we don't quite know what those look like yet.

518
00:31:53,824 --> 00:31:56,154
I think it's evolving very rapidly.

519
00:31:56,885 --> 00:31:57,154
Yeah.

520
00:31:57,354 --> 00:32:00,285
I mean, the, you know, the only thing constant is change.

521
00:32:00,285 --> 00:32:04,385
I remember back when I was in- incorporated AT&T, they, they said at

522
00:32:04,385 --> 00:32:09,065
one time, "The only thing constant is change, and it's getting faster.

523
00:32:09,405 --> 00:32:12,405
So if you're not ready for that, we're not the place for you."

524
00:32:12,405 --> 00:32:15,894
And I was just like, "Oh, wow, that's intense," but also true.

525
00:32:15,925 --> 00:32:20,105
I mean, things just keep moving forward at a faster and faster pace,

526
00:32:20,164 --> 00:32:25,635
and yeah, you ca- you can't sit in a boardroom and hem and haw over

527
00:32:25,635 --> 00:32:30,004
a design like you're in the Mad Men days of, you know, years past.

528
00:32:30,004 --> 00:32:34,414
It's, it's... There's a lot more to these projects and, and content

529
00:32:34,414 --> 00:32:37,865
that's coming out and the things that, you know, that, that you have

530
00:32:37,865 --> 00:32:42,685
to be ready to address, um, whether it be AI or what comes next.

531
00:32:43,084 --> 00:32:46,164
Uh, absolutely, and I think that's, that's the change that's

532
00:32:46,164 --> 00:32:49,745
gonna have to happen in the boardroom is, you know, empowering

533
00:32:49,804 --> 00:32:53,745
more of your team to be able to make decisions and move faster

534
00:32:53,745 --> 00:32:57,395
in a way than some of the bureaucracy has prevented, you know?

535
00:32:57,815 --> 00:33:00,925
I think the brands that are willing to lean in and understand that are

536
00:33:00,925 --> 00:33:05,495
gonna be the successful ones, and I say all of that can be driven by

537
00:33:05,495 --> 00:33:09,724
having a strong brand strategy where the team has a very clear platform

538
00:33:09,724 --> 00:33:14,365
to activate upon That will help increase that agility moving forward

539
00:33:14,875 --> 00:33:17,304
There's nothing worse than, and I'm sure at Breakwater

540
00:33:17,304 --> 00:33:20,035
you all may have, like, the preliminary conversation.

541
00:33:20,035 --> 00:33:21,184
You're probably not involved.

542
00:33:21,724 --> 00:33:26,905
But we, we've definitely had the conversations of, "Oh, so what's the strategy

543
00:33:26,905 --> 00:33:30,915
with this?" And they're like, "I, we just heard we needed one, so we're

544
00:33:30,915 --> 00:33:36,974
doing it." And you start to realize, like, there was no strategy behind this.

545
00:33:36,974 --> 00:33:38,585
There's no thought to what's going on.

546
00:33:39,034 --> 00:33:40,624
And, and yeah, I just...

547
00:33:40,655 --> 00:33:44,295
It's, if you don't have that strong strategy to begin with, you're

548
00:33:44,295 --> 00:33:48,244
gonna be also pulled left and right by whatever content comes your way,

549
00:33:48,674 --> 00:33:51,845
and whatever come, you know, whatever pops up, you're gonna try to do.

550
00:33:52,235 --> 00:33:54,095
You know, whatever's trending on TikTok, you're

551
00:33:54,095 --> 00:33:57,615
gonna end up falling into some embarrassing gaffe.

552
00:33:57,645 --> 00:34:02,415
Um, like I said earlier, you know, p- something being thrust upon you in

553
00:34:02,415 --> 00:34:06,354
terms of a trend or being caught up in, in a brand campaign you may not,

554
00:34:06,354 --> 00:34:09,485
may not want to be involved in because somebody said something stupid,

555
00:34:09,485 --> 00:34:13,064
or made the wrong analogy at the wrong time, or something like that.

556
00:34:13,095 --> 00:34:16,024
So yeah, it can be, it can be a challenge.

557
00:34:16,075 --> 00:34:17,604
But yeah, strategy's just so key.

558
00:34:17,964 --> 00:34:21,094
So what, what are you looking forward to with Breakwater?

559
00:34:21,555 --> 00:34:23,814
Um, are there any campaigns or anything?

560
00:34:23,814 --> 00:34:27,244
If you can't talk about it, it's okay, but I'm, I'm just curious if there's

561
00:34:27,244 --> 00:34:30,814
anything coming up you all are really excited to tease or highlight.

562
00:34:31,204 --> 00:34:35,344
Well, we have an incredible partnership right now with McDonald's, and I'm

563
00:34:35,375 --> 00:34:40,984
actually going to be flying down to Palm Springs this week to participate in

564
00:34:40,984 --> 00:34:45,615
the Amdocs, uh, Film Festival, and one of our films that we partnered with

565
00:34:45,615 --> 00:34:48,935
McDonald's is going to be highlighted, so we're super excited about that.

566
00:34:49,305 --> 00:34:55,164
And it's an incredible story, uh, about how someone was able to utilize

567
00:34:55,265 --> 00:35:00,274
the free Wi-Fi that McDonald's has and, and, and get into college.

568
00:35:00,524 --> 00:35:04,835
And it's an important, and again, it's an example of us sort of really

569
00:35:04,835 --> 00:35:09,984
getting around the storyteller and their story and helping advocate for them.

570
00:35:10,875 --> 00:35:13,795
But it's, it's, it's an important story about

571
00:35:13,795 --> 00:35:17,125
the role that McDonald's can play in communities.

572
00:35:17,615 --> 00:35:18,814
Yeah, so super exciting.

573
00:35:18,814 --> 00:35:21,034
We have more films coming this year.

574
00:35:21,204 --> 00:35:22,984
So that's definitely something I've been spending

575
00:35:22,984 --> 00:35:25,115
a lot of time, um, partnering with them on.

576
00:35:25,555 --> 00:35:27,305
And when you say more films coming, are you talking

577
00:35:27,305 --> 00:35:29,794
on the creative side of Breakwater's house or...?

578
00:35:30,305 --> 00:35:31,915
Just our partnership with McDonald's.

579
00:35:31,984 --> 00:35:33,904
We're doing, um, five films.

580
00:35:34,154 --> 00:35:34,434
Yeah.

581
00:35:34,704 --> 00:35:36,145
Can't, can't wait to see those.

582
00:35:36,145 --> 00:35:41,475
Uh, McDonald's, um, they've, they've been in an interesting trend.

583
00:35:41,475 --> 00:35:43,204
They've started an interesting trend lately

584
00:35:43,204 --> 00:35:45,605
with the, uh, the burgers and the, the tasting.

585
00:35:45,954 --> 00:35:50,684
That's an example of, you know, culture can, uh I do sometimes

586
00:35:50,985 --> 00:35:53,714
But, but I mean, I, I do, I do think it's cool, like when you

587
00:35:53,714 --> 00:35:57,675
say that community, community at McDonald's, like I know growing

588
00:35:57,675 --> 00:36:01,045
up there was a McDonald's near my house that like, I remember my

589
00:36:01,045 --> 00:36:04,045
dad going in the, like I guess one of the, like the franch- the

590
00:36:04,045 --> 00:36:06,864
manager or somebody there, they knew my dad's order every morning.

591
00:36:07,335 --> 00:36:08,814
Um, 'cause it was right next to his office.

592
00:36:08,814 --> 00:36:11,204
He'd go, he'd get coffee, and the guy knew him.

593
00:36:11,304 --> 00:36:15,845
And I very early on as a kid felt like I had some community at

594
00:36:15,845 --> 00:36:18,255
McDonald's, so I can see that being a really interesting story.

595
00:36:18,255 --> 00:36:21,905
'Cause, you know, they're ubiquitous in culture, but they're a part

596
00:36:21,905 --> 00:36:26,145
of a lot of small towns and, you know, they're just a relatively

597
00:36:26,145 --> 00:36:30,375
clean and safe place if you need a place to hang out or be places.

598
00:36:30,375 --> 00:36:33,794
So I'm, I'm really interested to see this, uh, this documentary.

599
00:36:33,855 --> 00:36:34,945
Is it, is it available?

600
00:36:35,105 --> 00:36:37,215
It, some- we have a few of the films.

601
00:36:37,335 --> 00:36:40,474
I'm, um, you can find it on YouTube, and I'm happy to share

602
00:36:40,474 --> 00:36:43,835
it with you, and then a few more haven't been launched.

603
00:36:44,515 --> 00:36:47,204
But to your point, that was what was so interesting about

604
00:36:47,274 --> 00:36:50,895
partnering with them, and we learned that basically one in

605
00:36:50,895 --> 00:36:54,845
eight Americans have had a job at McDonald's starting out.

606
00:36:55,714 --> 00:36:59,174
And it's just incredible to learn all of the community

607
00:36:59,174 --> 00:37:02,724
stories around the country where McDonald's played a really

608
00:37:02,724 --> 00:37:06,534
important role in helping people have access to opportunity.

609
00:37:06,854 --> 00:37:07,985
So we really enjoy it.

610
00:37:08,644 --> 00:37:12,724
Well, as we wrap up, I always like to ask as kind of my last question.

611
00:37:12,724 --> 00:37:16,184
We've talked a lot about brands today, the value of brands and all that.

612
00:37:16,184 --> 00:37:18,074
What is a brand that you currently admire?

613
00:37:18,665 --> 00:37:20,424
I'm a huge fan of Levi's right now.

614
00:37:20,824 --> 00:37:23,195
Levi's is an old brand, right?

615
00:37:23,784 --> 00:37:27,485
An iconic legacy brand, and a couple years ago

616
00:37:27,485 --> 00:37:30,125
sort of found itself trying to be relevant again.

617
00:37:30,515 --> 00:37:35,845
And then you have Beyoncé with the song, and boom, you know, they quickly

618
00:37:35,845 --> 00:37:39,924
incorporated her into their advertising, which was very well done.

619
00:37:40,184 --> 00:37:42,424
And then the ad that they launched at the

620
00:37:42,424 --> 00:37:44,714
Super Bowl couldn't have been more Levi's.

621
00:37:45,644 --> 00:37:46,294
It was excellent.

622
00:37:46,934 --> 00:37:51,724
Levi's is a brand I've noticed like even in like I've, I've been, I've

623
00:37:51,724 --> 00:37:57,544
been doing kind of a, a slow progressive dive into like men's cl- menswear,

624
00:37:57,544 --> 00:38:02,084
clothing, and trying to find a better style for myself personally, right?

625
00:38:02,225 --> 00:38:04,294
Uh, obviously I'm in a wonderful Brooks

626
00:38:04,294 --> 00:38:07,735
Brothers, um, shirt that I've had for ages today.

627
00:38:07,875 --> 00:38:11,405
But as I've looked at brands and, and like f- you know, trying to get

628
00:38:11,405 --> 00:38:14,884
away from fast fashion, stuff like that, I've seen Levi's pop up a

629
00:38:14,884 --> 00:38:18,134
little bit, and I, I know they're kind of on the more consumer side, but

630
00:38:18,315 --> 00:38:21,625
it's been interesting to see them in spaces where I didn't expect them.

631
00:38:21,815 --> 00:38:24,214
So yeah, the, my, my perspective on the brand has

632
00:38:24,214 --> 00:38:26,104
been shifting a little bit recently with them.

633
00:38:26,104 --> 00:38:27,294
So that's interesting.

634
00:38:27,294 --> 00:38:29,044
I'll have to look into m- into that more.

635
00:38:29,494 --> 00:38:32,895
Well, and I'm a big believer that brands who surprise

636
00:38:32,895 --> 00:38:37,065
and delight and show up in unexpected places, that makes

637
00:38:37,065 --> 00:38:40,549
somebody pay attention That's an important strategy

638
00:38:41,140 --> 00:38:41,749
Absolutely.

639
00:38:42,330 --> 00:38:43,049
Well, very cool.

640
00:38:43,049 --> 00:38:47,009
Well, Kirsten, where can people connect with you if they wanna connect with you?

641
00:38:47,009 --> 00:38:48,669
Where can they learn more about Breakwater?

642
00:38:49,020 --> 00:38:53,850
They can find us online, certainly at our website, breakwaterstudios.com.

643
00:38:53,959 --> 00:38:58,770
I'm very active on LinkedIn, so always respond to requests

644
00:38:58,770 --> 00:39:02,409
or interact with people there, or people can always email me.

645
00:39:02,790 --> 00:39:04,770
Well, thank you so much for coming on the show.

646
00:39:04,770 --> 00:39:06,489
I've really enjoyed this conversation.

647
00:39:06,979 --> 00:39:07,569
Thank you.

648
00:39:08,930 --> 00:39:11,330
Thanks for checking out this episode of We Built This Brand.

649
00:39:11,599 --> 00:39:14,299
Don't forget to like and subscribe on your player of choice.

650
00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:18,470
You can also keep up with the podcast on webuiltthisbrand.com.

651
00:39:18,540 --> 00:39:22,389
If you liked this episode, please give the podcast a five-star review and make

652
00:39:22,389 --> 00:39:26,459
sure to tell all your friends about it so we can continue to build this brand.